DIY Trailcams
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Vonfoust

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,355
Reply with quote  #1 
This year my daughter told me she wants to go archery hunting. She cant pull the minimum. I have an old cheap crossbow. Going to work on it this summer. Is there a difference in the broadheads marketed for crossbows or not?
__________________
When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something.
0
IroquoisArcher

Avatar / Picture

Pooper Scooper
Registered:
Posts: 6,358
Reply with quote  #2 
They have different crossbow heas made specifically by certain brands and will have for crossbows on the packing. Usually I think they are exactly the same but playing to the customers not knowing and thinking that is the one needed. That said check the ferrule on them and you will notice they look stronger so I want to know is how they keep it the same weight? Different material in the ferrule? Something with the blades even though they say they are the same? There are alot made in 75 grain but personally I think that is too light for higher speeds as the FOC is now more towards the rear of the bolt and personally I think it would wind plain more. I use 100 grain and think these would be considered too light but bench rest shooting with sandbags I can't notice any of this at 45 yards. I won't shoot over 35 on deer but longer sight in to see for problems. You can never go wrong with SlickTricks except for the blade seeming to knick up after a shoot into/through and animal and hitting bone but (unlike most guys) that isn't bad, 1 arrow, 1 animal. You could also look into opening broadhead (Spitfires are good) but these take a bit more energy away as they need to start punching through for the blades to deploy. I'm going to try experimenting with some this year. I used to shoot Wasp with a verticle bow but didn't like the blades loading through the front and held in place by the Trocar tip. They now have a new one out (Muzzy Trocar) that load from the back and are then fastened down with a small screw into the ferrule. Thinking this may be what I'll use this year.

Oh yes, make sure the overall length of the broadhead is short(er). A longer head also will tend (to possibly) wind plane.

__________________
When you are in a difficult situation and wonder where God is; remember the Teacher is always quiet during the test.
0
Buckhunter1

Avatar / Picture

The Tin Man
Registered:
Posts: 2,127
Reply with quote  #3 
I've been using 100 gr Slick Tricks but I think this year I'm going to a 125gr head, just want a little heaver arrow.

Here's a little info from another crossbow forum, just some food for thought.

By Boo
When Excalibur started, the bows were pretty slow. When the Mag Tips were introduced the bow speeds were higher and increasing in the following years. With the increase of speed came less forgiving setups.
When the tiller is off the center of the string will pulled to the direction of the stiffer limb. So if the tiller is off the arrow will want to be dragged off center of the mainframe causing an arrow to depart from the bow askew causing erratic flight. The arrow will first depart from the bow with it's rear end towards the stiff limb and then try to go back to the flight vector and then wobble back and forth before stabilizing. Couple that with a fixed broadhead and you get erratic flight.
So the faster bows cause more string pressure from the string onto the arrow causing more grip at the nock. So that poor nock travel on high poundage bows can cause even greater effect on arrow flight. This is why less poundage bows tend to be more accurate.
Heavier arrows tend to be more accurate because it resists the poor nock travel because of inertia and lighter arrows are easily influenced.
Keep in mind that there's 2 objects exactly alike so there's no 2 limbs precisely the same deflection wise. So it's a matter of degrees not a go/no go situation.
Take my 165 Exocet. The launch is pretty gentle compared to an Excocet 200/Matrix etc. So if my tiller is off the nock travel may be off to one side but the nock will slide along the string and remain inline with the arrow groove of the mainframe.
This business with tiller and speed is exactly why mechanicals work so well. If launched from a bow with poor tiller, the arrow will still come out of the bow askew but having no blades to grip the air, the arrow stabilizes quickly.
Take a bow with poor (to a degree) tiller and shoot it with a field point and you get good accuracy. Put a wide fixed blade on it and you'll get poor accuracy. Of course, really bad tiller gives you bad accuracy with or without fixed broadheads.
Good nock travel is important to all bows, crossbows and vertical bows included.
0
IroquoisArcher

Avatar / Picture

Pooper Scooper
Registered:
Posts: 6,358
Reply with quote  #4 
Bruce, I agree with that. That is why I was bench testing mine with broadheads on. Closer ranges couldn't see them but at 45 yards could watch the bolt flight and it looked like no wobble what-so-ever. You hit it on the head with the heavier weight giving a more front FOC except (my personal quirk) I don't like mechanicals for the loss of energy in penetration. May not be alot but is some and I just became anal about it. Mechanicals are the #1 seller for crossbows in the store. That said I again personally believe it is because a majority of the guys come in and have the notion that a mechanical will ALWAYS fly like a field point, both in flight and placement. Another thing to keep in mind is to ALWAYS use your rope cocker when cocking the bow. Had a guy come into the shop and he said his bow was hitting 6" right then 6" left, erratic. Here he was cocking it by hand so never hit the same "nock point" the same so would also act like a stiffer limb of sorts.
__________________
When you are in a difficult situation and wonder where God is; remember the Teacher is always quiet during the test.
0
Vonfoust

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,355
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IroquoisArcher
Bruce, I agree with that. That is why I was bench testing mine with broadheads on. Closer ranges couldn't see them but at 45 yards could watch the bolt flight and it looked like no wobble what-so-ever. You hit it on the head with the heavier weight giving a more front FOC except (my personal quirk) I don't like mechanicals for the loss of energy in penetration. May not be alot but is some and I just became anal about it. Mechanicals are the #1 seller for crossbows in the store. That said I again personally believe it is because a majority of the guys come in and have the notion that a mechanical will ALWAYS fly like a field point, both in flight and placement. Another thing to keep in mind is to ALWAYS use your rope cocker when cocking the bow. Had a guy come into the shop and he said his bow was hitting 6" right then 6" left, erratic. Here he was cocking it by hand so never hit the same "nock point" the same so would also act like a stiffer limb of sorts.

I'm all vertical.  My son was strong enough early enough that he went right to a vertical bow.  Never shot a crossbow much.  The rope cocker is a tip I never would have figured out.  I use 100 grain Montecs with my bow.  Think they would work with the crossbow?  (that's more or less what this is, do I REALLY need to buy specific broadheads or will what i have work)  I can't see how they could make broadheads different??  But, that's why I'm asking too.

__________________
When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something.
0
Buckhunter1

Avatar / Picture

The Tin Man
Registered:
Posts: 2,127
Reply with quote  #6 
Best way to find out is to shoot them an see how they fly.

One guy on another forum like to tune his crossbow arrows by shooting them with no fletching, an rotating the arrow and broadhead until they all fly the same. Very similar to old fashion Paper test all us old timers used for bow tuning.
I don't use mechanical broadheads, nothing against them, just always liked fixed heads cause it's one thing to worry bout.
Once again Sir Jon is correct bout using a cocking rope, consistent pull an latching every time makes a big difference, especially for a short armed guy like me  [biggrin]
0
Vonfoust

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,355
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhunter1
Best way to find out is to shoot them an see how they fly.

One guy on another forum like to tune his crossbow arrows by shooting them with no fletching, an rotating the arrow and broadhead until they all fly the same. Very similar to old fashion Paper test all us old timers used for bow tuning.
I don't use mechanical broadheads, nothing against them, just always liked fixed heads cause it's one thing to worry bout.
Once again Sir Jon is correct bout using a cocking rope, consistent pull an latching every time makes a big difference, especially for a short armed guy like me  [biggrin]

Very familiar with paper tuning Bruce.  Was doing it when I was 11 so I could hunt when I was 12 (that was 1983 not to go on a tangent but it was a Hoyt/Easton Buck).  In fact I still start there.  Ever try to paper tune a corssbow?  Would it be worth it?  I really know nothign about them.  This is a recurve, so maybe a tweak on one limb vs another or do you think the cocking would override any tweaks?

__________________
When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something.
0
don

Registered:
Posts: 1,354
Reply with quote  #8 
A broadhead is a broadhead is a broadhead with very few exceptions, the exception being a mechanical broadhead shot at over 300 feet per second from a crossbow or the fastest vertical may open either partially or even fully before it has reached the intended target, thus reducing penetration and/or accuracy or both.

A cut on contact fixed blade head such as the Montec would be a great choice if it hits exactly where you are aiming and is sharp enough to shave hair from your forearm, etc. Unfortunately some do not have the ability or patience to sharpen the Montec sufficiently enough to achieve proper penetration for a quick, clean, humane kill and for them a replaceable blade broadhead such as the SlickTrick would be a much better choice.

No head has the ability to stand up to bone and survive without at least some dulling/damage nor will one remain sharp if it has been shot into the ground either as a result of a passthru or a clean miss. 
With todays vertical and horizontal bows shooting at near identical speeds a head specifically aimed at either market is simply a ploy by the manufacturers meant to increase their bottom line and nothing else.

As far as paper tuning a bare shaft shot from a crossbow with a broadhead on it, all I can say is good luck with trying that. That is why they put fletching on arrows.....lol

__________________
[smile] My homebrew picture and video album links.
https://picasaweb.google.com/michiganbowbender
https://vimeo.com/michiganbowbender/videos
0
IroquoisArcher

Avatar / Picture

Pooper Scooper
Registered:
Posts: 6,358
Reply with quote  #9 
With don on the using what you got. As long as they hit where you aim. Assuming have a scope on it so can adjust it that way for accuracy.
Bruce will probrably know more but Excaliburs have a line or else where the front end bolts to the stock that shows the optimum string placement for that bow. Compound type crossbows you can usually make sure the cams are adjusted the same (my Challenger has dots on the cams so can match each side up, like syncing the cams on a vertical bow so it hits the stops top and bottom at the same time).
Another note is to check the string. On compound type crossbows rule of thumbe is string every year and cables either at the same time or at most two years. They have alot of stored energy on them. Recurve types are the same but alot cheaper as only have the one string. Usually get stretch in them so a new string (right length of course) usually puts you right there or can be twisted up to bring into that place.
Think you know this but another MUST is to use rail lube (not string wax) on the rail usually every 15-20 shots or so. If the rail looks dry lube it. Makes the serving last and also keeps it from burning through and snapping the string. String can use reg. string wax.

__________________
When you are in a difficult situation and wonder where God is; remember the Teacher is always quiet during the test.
0
Vonfoust

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,355
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IroquoisArcher
With don on the using what you got. As long as they hit where you aim. Assuming have a scope on it so can adjust it that way for accuracy. Bruce will probrably know more but Excaliburs have a line or else where the front end bolts to the stock that shows the optimum string placement for that bow. Compound type crossbows you can usually make sure the cams are adjusted the same (my Challenger has dots on the cams so can match each side up, like syncing the cams on a vertical bow so it hits the stops top and bottom at the same time). Another note is to check the string. On compound type crossbows rule of thumbe is string every year and cables either at the same time or at most two years. They have alot of stored energy on them. Recurve types are the same but alot cheaper as only have the one string. Usually get stretch in them so a new string (right length of course) usually puts you right there or can be twisted up to bring into that place. Think you know this but another MUST is to use rail lube (not string wax) on the rail usually every 15-20 shots or so. If the rail looks dry lube it. Makes the serving last and also keeps it from burning through and snapping the string. String can use reg. string wax.


I have had this crossbow for probably 6-7 years and probably put a couple hundred shots through it.  The string is a mess, and I had NO idea there was even such a thing as rail lube until recently.  Hopefully at camfest I ca bring the bow up to you and you can see what I need as far as a string.  (If no camfest this year I will be sorely disappointed, as I will actually have something to work on and a crossbow to bring to Jon)  If not, I'll ship it to you.  Start with my Montecs and some rail lube and go from there.  Good stuff guys thank you all.

__________________
When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something.
0
Buckhunter1

Avatar / Picture

The Tin Man
Registered:
Posts: 2,127
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonfoust
Quote:
Originally Posted by IroquoisArcher
With don on the using what you got. As long as they hit where you aim. Assuming have a scope on it so can adjust it that way for accuracy. Bruce will probrably know more but Excaliburs have a line or else where the front end bolts to the stock that shows the optimum string placement for that bow. Compound type crossbows you can usually make sure the cams are adjusted the same (my Challenger has dots on the cams so can match each side up, like syncing the cams on a vertical bow so it hits the stops top and bottom at the same time). Another note is to check the string. On compound type crossbows rule of thumbe is string every year and cables either at the same time or at most two years. They have alot of stored energy on them. Recurve types are the same but alot cheaper as only have the one string. Usually get stretch in them so a new string (right length of course) usually puts you right there or can be twisted up to bring into that place. Think you know this but another MUST is to use rail lube (not string wax) on the rail usually every 15-20 shots or so. If the rail looks dry lube it. Makes the serving last and also keeps it from burning through and snapping the string. String can use reg. string wax.


I have had this crossbow for probably 6-7 years and probably put a couple hundred shots through it.  The string is a mess, and I had NO idea there was even such a thing as rail lube until recently.  Hopefully at camfest I ca bring the bow up to you and you can see what I need as far as a string.  (If no camfest this year I will be sorely disappointed, as I will actually have something to work on and a crossbow to bring to Jon)  If not, I'll ship it to you.  Start with my Montecs and some rail lube and go from there.  Good stuff guys thank you all.


Your in luck, Jon is a String Wizard, he'll have ya all strung up before you know it!

I use rail lube real sparing, my Excal decks are like glass anyway. You can spray silicon spray on a cloth an wipe the deck with it in a pinch. I wipe the limbs and deck down with denatured alcohol to clean wax off them, crossbows sling wax everywhere.  Watch out for string wax in the trigger, it builds up after a bit. Get her a nice red-dot scope now an let her shoot 3d this summer. She'll kick your butt by fall seasons  [biggrin]
Carry on!
0
IroquoisArcher

Avatar / Picture

Pooper Scooper
Registered:
Posts: 6,358
Reply with quote  #12 
Coming to the workshop Sat. (3/7/15)? Can look at it then maybe if you are. Re-fresh my memory, you did or didn't know the manufacturer and model? That would help alot.

Wadda ya want Bruce? That's 2 compliments now in 2 days that you've given me.

__________________
When you are in a difficult situation and wonder where God is; remember the Teacher is always quiet during the test.
0
kdornski

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,467
Reply with quote  #13 

Wadda ya want Bruce? That's 2 compliments now in 2 days that you've give

He wants to barrow 30-06 from you LOL
0
IroquoisArcher

Avatar / Picture

Pooper Scooper
Registered:
Posts: 6,358
Reply with quote  #14 
If she was down here and not at your place then she'd hjave my blessing.
__________________
When you are in a difficult situation and wonder where God is; remember the Teacher is always quiet during the test.
0
Buckhunter1

Avatar / Picture

The Tin Man
Registered:
Posts: 2,127
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IroquoisArcher

Wadda ya want Bruce? That's 2 compliments now in 2 days that you've given me.


Oh Jon, I didn't realize we were keeping score  [nono]
0
Vonfoust

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,355
Reply with quote  #16 
Can't make it tomorrow to the workshop.  Too many kids activities during the day.  Bruce it already had a red dot on it when given to me.  I have wonderful friends!!
__________________
When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something.
0
Vonfoust

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,355
Reply with quote  #17 

Oh, and Jon I do not know the manufacturer.  I haven't seen anything on it.  It was given to me just as a "Here, my kids are done with this why don't you see if your kids like shooting it." kind of thing.  If she takes to it I may get her a better crossbow.  Don't want to spend that kind of money on her 'whims' until she really decides.  I've been burnt with her whims before!


__________________
When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something.
0
Buckhunter1

Avatar / Picture

The Tin Man
Registered:
Posts: 2,127
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonfoust

Oh, and Jon I do not know the manufacturer.  I haven't seen anything on it.  It was given to me just as a "Here, my kids are done with this why don't you see if your kids like shooting it." kind of thing.  If she takes to it I may get her a better crossbow.  Don't want to spend that kind of money on her 'whims' until she really decides.  I've been burnt with her whims before!



Ya mean your little princess change her mind? My little 26 yr old princess is moving back home  [eek]  [crazy]
Good news is she wants to try a crossbow this fall also. Shes had enough of hunting in the snow & ice.

0
IroquoisArcher

Avatar / Picture

Pooper Scooper
Registered:
Posts: 6,358
Reply with quote  #19 
Chris, let me know next time if she comes to a workshop and I'll bring my Parker Challenger crossbow. She should be able to handle it and see more about different ones. Mine is camo'd in Woodlands(?) but they have a brand new pink camoflauge that alot of companies are going to. Walmart even had a rifle in that camo I saw yesterday.
__________________
When you are in a difficult situation and wonder where God is; remember the Teacher is always quiet during the test.
0
Buckhunter1

Avatar / Picture

The Tin Man
Registered:
Posts: 2,127
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IroquoisArcher
Chris, let me know next time if she comes to a workshop and I'll bring my Parker Challenger crossbow. She should be able to handle it and see more about different ones. Mine is camo'd in Woodlands(?) but they have a brand new pink camoflauge that alot of companies are going to. Walmart even had a rifle in that camo I saw yesterday.


Best offer your gonna get, right there! 
if she need some arrows I might be able to help you out. 400 gr arrow with a capture nock should work.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.